Monday, January 30, 2012
Food & Drink Can a Native Brooklynite Still Be an 'Invading Hipster'?
Posted by Henry Stewart on Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 12:02 PM
He doesn't lack for alternatives; probable apocrypha has it that the neighborhood's stretch of Third Avenue holds a Guinness record for bars per square mile, or per capita, or something. But those spots tend toward the sorts of places you'd cruise for chicks with a frat brother or wine and dine the head of the chamber of commerce. There are old, well known, sometimes wonderful places (and their more recent counterparts), but none reflect even a little the new Brooklyn sensibility centralized in the borough's northern precincts; an iconic lunch counter, Hinsch's, only recently, under new ownership, began grilling veggie burgers. They're not places that appeal deliberately to the young, the hip, the creative.
Until, perhaps, now.
"The difference has been our atmosphere," Owl's Head co-owner John Avelluto tells me. "Low music, no television, and a cozy space allow for conversation to take place." But to really understand The Owl's Head, how it distinguishes itself from its neighbors, you first have to understand Bay Ridge.
Anecdotal evidence, at least, suggests that young Brooklynites are moving farther south. More kids in funny clothes stay on southbound R trains past 59th Street—the border of Sunset Park, the hitherto terminus of hipster expansion. (Not that they're welcome; hatred of hipsters is strong in southern Brooklyn.) But it's not just them. It's also Bay Ridge's sons and daughters who grew up and stayed in the neighborhood, Millennials now settling into careers and marriages. At a wooden table in The Owl's Head, lighted by battery-powered tea candle, my girlfriend tells me she also knows of several young couples who have moved to Bay Ridge—creative professionals drawn to affordable rents in a nice community.
Nice, maybe, but boring. There is a movie theater, but little else in the way of culture, little to do besides drink heavily in one of the many bars or walk through the mile and a half of waterfront parkland. A mix of working and upper classes, which gets tonier the closer you get to the shore, Bay Ridge is considered a Naturally Occurring Retirement Community. By day, it's full of seniors enjoying half-sandwiches and cups of soup; by evening, traces of them hardly remain—those who work or go to school during the day might never even know they'd been there. The nightlife stirs, especially on the weekends, attracting visitors from Staten Island and neighborhoods east in their finest muscle shirts, blasting the finest electronic music from their finest car stereos. These are the remains of the neighborhood's once dominant Irish and Italians (and Greeks and Russians). But the neighborhood also has a thriving Middle Eastern community, whose cafes dot Fifth Avenue like the bars do Third.
"My regulars include young to mid-career artists, union workers, parents and foodies," Avelluto tells me. "Our clientele has been incredibly diverse." He appears suspiciously North Brooklyn: bearded, pairing a suit (no tie) with a knit cap. He has been portrayed in the local press as a member of the vanguard of the hipster invasion of Bay Ridge. But his voice slips into a classic Brooklyn accent every sixth or seventh word. As he wrote in a comment on a local blog, "Born in Gravesend, went to Brooklyn College for both undergrad and grad, both my uncle and father were founders of [a social club] on Court Street (which I am currently a member of), carried the Madonna in procession of the Maria SS Idoloratta, and I'm still considered a 'hipster invader.'" He has lived in Bay Ridge for a while, he tells me; he went to high school at Xaverian, blocks from the park from which the bar takes its name. (The other owner, Steve Weintraub, is from Baltimore and lives in Bushwick; they're both artists he's an art dealer, and Avelluto is an artist and the co-creator of the neighborhood's Storefront Art Walk.)
Though old Brooklyn, Avelluto runs a wine bar that embodies something that still feels kind of new: not the external invaders imposing their ways of life on humble blue-collar families, but the natives building out from the status quo—locals themselves changing with the times, a new generation of Brooklyn-born young adults who have come to believe they can drink wine and converse without betraying the mores of their friends and families, who can crave something new in addition to that which exists, not in lieu of. Who seek to develop, not to destroy, to create, make additions, and improve upon the cultural landscapes of their pasts. This is Brooklyn's hipster within.
Still. Back outside The Owl's Head, a family passes. "Oh, there's where the wine place is," a woman says, perhaps having read the article in The Home Reporter. The four admire it through the windows. "It's cute," a younger woman agrees. But they don't go inside. Change, after all, takes time.
Follow Henry Stewart on Twitter @henrycstewart
[photos]
Comments (86)
Showing 1-50 of 86
Recently I was reading two profiles of Williamsburg from early in the year 2000, one in the New York Times and the other in TONY. They referred to "arty East Village-types" and "bohemians" respectively, no use of the h word. Probably the last year that was possible. Now it comes up in reference to Bay Ridge.
like
dislikeFor all of those "creative professionals drawn to affordable rents in a nice community" - join the Bay Ridge Creative Meetup! We meet every month at The Owls Head. Facebook group page: http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/29653618…
@yo yo pa - It was used as far back as the mid-1980s. Mind you, there are different pockets of gentrification erupting and developing sometimes incognizant of each other--the group[s] that focused on the Kent Avenue Piece Factories, the Northside and the Grand Street edges of the Southside were emerging [and sometimes emanating] from a conservative, even reactionary community. Those "locals" often confused these particular agents of gentrification as "hippies," and it was in clarification that these agents of gentrification appropriated "hipster" from brownstone Brooklyn universe without ever acknowledging the theft [psychologically and en masse, it was important for this particular brand of "hipster" to tether themselves to the Lower East Side and East Village and to deny, or threaten their "uniqueness", earlier and more significant modes of gentrification in brownstone Brooklyn. Literature is an excellent way of distinguishing--the writing, much more commercially successful, emphasized the blackness, often artificially, of the agents of gentrification. The literary output from Williamsburg, more obscure and less accomplished, was inverse: it denied its whiteness.
Excuse me, the second sentence was misconstructed. It should read: "Mind you, there are different pockets of gentrification erupting and developing sometimes incognizant of each other--the group[s] that focused on the Kent Avenue Piece Factories, the Northside and the Grand Street edges of the Southside were emerging [and sometimes emanating] from *WITHIN, 'GEOGRAPHICALLY' SPEAKING, a conservative, even reactionary community.
Cheers to John Avelluto and great to see this article here.
But please, get rid of this hipster within reference and the long-held notion that Bay Ridge is a cultural wasteland.
In Bay Ridge, "There is a movie theater, but little else in the way of culture, little to do besides drink heavily in one of the many bars or walk through the mile and a half of waterfront parkland." Shit, let's get drunk, walk along Shore Road, then throw ourselves off the Bridge! Thank God that several of these "outsider" creative young couples are moving to Bay Ridge.
What the fuck.
Why not follow up with an article about other business that fit your hipster demographic because they are there, they are homegrown, and have been there for a while. They are everything you describe in terms of the "native" aesthetic. There are galleries, bookstores, cafes--they do not have to be labeled hipster, they are just cool people from Bay Ridge. Just dig a bit deeper.
By the way, I've seen and drank with many types over the years on 3rd ave, including college students, but I wouldn't say frat boys would be the prevelant group of people hopping around. As a matter of fact, I think it is the frat boys who go through a hipster metamorphasis in college and become the Williamsburg people, yea?
"Nice, maybe, but boring. There is a movie theater, but little else in the way of culture, little to do besides drink heavily in one of the many bars or walk through the mile and a half of waterfront parkland." Clearly the perspective of an "outsider" and hipster than thou with an outsider's view of Bay Ridge....
There's TONS of culture here for those of us who are not only current residents but lifelong residents who yes, do resent the inference of our lack of education and culture simply by virtue of the zip code we grew up in. The subtext of Bay Ridge residents not being cool enough for those who live on the L line and grew up in cornfields and suburbia while we took the R train into Manhattan to hit up ABC No Rio when you were probably learning penmanship is ironic at best and myopic at its core.
Sound bitter, yeah, I am. I'm sick of young, "hip" transplants who write articles like this with NO CLUE as to what the culture of our neighborhood is beyond the mythology of a bar for every resident along Third Avenue.
I could go on to list our art galleries, the Storefront's art, writing and crafting classes, CSA, Food Co-Op, Jazz Nights at Cafe at Sam's, Movie Nights at HoM, BRUCA's pottery classes, our myriad book clubs, etc. Our restaurant scene features some of the finest cuisine in the borough and beyond (hello, have you been to Tanoreen?!? Petit Oven? Polonica?)
What does Williamsburg have that Bay Ridge doesn't? Inflated rents in a neighborhood that looks like a jumble of new architechture and aluminum siding dumps? Overpriced restaurants filled with hipper than thou attitudes from hostesses making $9.75 an hour? Oh, please. This piece is so insulting on so many levels. The Owl's Head is a wonderful addition to an already thriving, culturally exciting and NICE neighborhood to live in with engaged, young and educated families who don't feel the need to spend exorbitant amounts of rent in dilapidated apartments to prove our status as New Yorkers. WE ARE NEW YORK at its most authentic and culturally genuine apex and we're continuing to thrive.
I'm curious how much time this author spent in Bay Ridge to have us all figured out so well.
The author IS from Bay Ridge, which is what makes this article so poignant. . . why the sellout, Henry? Show some neighborhood pride, man! If you like Bay Ridge enough to keep on living there, and to also make your living writing about Brooklyn (Magazine), why bite the hand that feeds you. Your snarky comments about your own neighborhood are uncool. And I don't mean as in "hipster" uncool.
Bay Ridge has its own unique culture. But don't mistake it for no culture. Everyone I know who grew up there treasures it. No matter where they live. If you happen not to, fine. If you do, it just doesn't come through in this article.
full disclosure: I have spent my whole life in Bay Ridge. My grandmother attended Bay Ridge High School, now Telecommunications; my other grandmother went to Fort Hamilton High School the year it opened. My aunts and uncles on both sides went there too, as did my parents, as did I. My parents took their wedding photos in Owl's Head Park, and had their reception at the Danish Athletic Club. I still have my McKinley gym shirt. I bought CDs at Record Factory, rented tapes at Video Den, saw movies at the Fortway. I remember Soup as Art and the New York Coffee Exchange, the now painted-over murals on Food City and Lowens Pharmacy. As a little kid, I used to walk into Once Upon a Sundae and order "the usual" because I went there so often. I used to write letters to Christopher Mega, who'd write me back. If I walk into a community board meeting, I shake the hands of people I've known for more than 20 years. Everyday I wave hello to neighbors I've been seeing for longer. MY GRANDFATHER HELPED BUILD THE VERRAZANO BRIDGE MY FATHER HELPED REBUILD THE CONEY ISLAND BOARDWALK HAVE I PASSED YOUR AUTHENTICITY TEST?
@katepr I don't know anyone who loves Bay Ridge unconditionally. I love its beautiful blocks, certain restaurants and bars, its parks, its waterfront. I love its history, and my own history with it. I love many of its people; most of my friends live in Bay Ridge. I sing its praises often to skeptical strangers. Still, it's not perfect. But that doesn't mean I don't love it. It's like family. And if we can't gently tease family...
Not a test, I knew you were authentic, that's why I wondered where's the respect! Perfect, no way, especially as my house was next to the Belt Parkway. You can treasure it and have a love-hate relationship with it, but love conquers all, I guess.
I just so dislike that word hipster. I went to a college that would now be considered hipster I guess and if someone said that around me I would smack the shit out of them. So, using your journalistic influence, maybe you can try to phase that word out of Brooklyn.
Loved Record Factory, I remember Frankie. ? Spent alot of money there.
Nooooooooo!!! Keep this hipster sh*t out of south Brooklyn. Http://www.diehipster.com
I for one welcome this addition to the neighborhood. It's not going to be a pretentious hipster joint in Bay Ridge. It's going to be a nice wine bar that we native New Yorkers can take our friends, significant others and family members to. Look, places like this are far better than the dozens of crappy Chinese restaurants that have opened up on 86ST in Bensonhurst. I'll take a nice wine bar over a crappy, rodent infested cafe where I can't even get a menu in English any day.
Let's face it, southern Brooklyn needs places like this. It needs a revival. Bay Ridge, Bensonhurst and Bath Beach will NEVER become Williamsburg and Greenpoint.
I think those of us "annoyed" by this article have no issue with the wonderful addition of the Owl's Head, whatsoever. I personally welcome it and cannot wait to visit for this week's Mom's Night Out. The issue is with the author's assertion out of the gate that there is no "culture" here beyond the Alpine (which is a bizarre statement in itself) is what causes me so much consternation as native and current resident with generations of roots here, where my great-grandparents emigrated from Scotland in the 1950s.
Henry, as a lifelong Bay Ridge resident, it makes your POV even more challenging to ken that as someone who has such deep roots why you express so little knowledge of the MANY cultural institutions and opportunities here. If you feel that way, as a writer, I also would encourage you to effect change rather than write an article about "gentrification" in our little corner pocket of Brooklyn. As a fellow writer, I would also suggest you do some more research on your topics, regardless of your predisposed perception of your knowledge of a topic by virtue of your personal opinions.
Bay Ridge cannot be gentrified by virtue of the fact that it has never been a socioeconomically undesirable neighborhood unlike others (INCLUDING Park Slope) that have experienced gentrification over the last 20 years. When I was a teenager going to Williamsburg was dangerous and barren and truly the bastion of artists, miscreants and weirdos wild enough to brave the cavernous, industrialized streets.
Bay Ridge, has and probably will, continue to be solidly middle-class and upper middle class community. We are wonderfully diverse in our community, we are growing organically into a place where families and residents are finding alternatives to the status quo by being proactive and active in our community and we are seeing an influx of exciting new businesses that I pray succeed in struggling and uncertain economy.
This article COULD have been a great piece on the positive changes in Bay Ridge that exemplify and defy the predisposed notions about our community. Rather, one of our own, has simply perpetuated the mythology and heralded the hipster contingent as a sign of progress for our neighborhood which is a sad and uninformed perspective.
@Heather Mele
You should write that article and send us a link.
Heather,
I appreciate and very much enjoy your fantastic and well-told perspective. However, I object to your "otherization" of Williamsburg on the same grounds you're objecting to for your community. Take it from someone born and raised in the Southside--the perception of Williamsburg as "dangerous and barren and truly the bastion of artists, miscreants and weirdos wild enough to brave the cavernous, industrialized streets" is narrow and too often misleading. Firstly, the area that comprises the "cavernous, industrialized streets" of Williamsburg, presumably her "industrial zones" comprise a geographic fraction of Williamsburg whole [Southside/Northside, "Third Ward"]. Outside of those industrial zones, there existed and continues to exist thousands of households, the majority of Williamsburg in fact, that are law-abiding and even conservative in nature. Even the Hispanic quarters that are traditionally Democrat tend to be so along the issue of race--in almost every other social manner they are conservative. The former abundance of churches of multiple denominations along Union Avenue, Grand Street, Berry and, yes, Bedford Avenue attest to this. The characterization is even narrow from within the demographic of "artists" as a whole--the "artists" who gravitated to the industrial quarters in the 1980s and early 1990s [mostly in the "Kent Avenue Piece Factories", which are now Northside Piers, the Edge and East River State Park] were only a fraction of persons who identified as "artists" in Williamsburg as a whole, and let me tell you from someone who has lived in the community nearly all his life and also knew many of those artists "personally"--then and now [in their descendants, "the hipsters"] much of their activity happened right under the noses and often with the willing consent of the 94th Precinct, so much of that "miscreant" was staged and vicarious [much of their being "miscreant" was in doing what you just did with your characterization of Williamsburg--characterize it as a 'safari' and themselves as Tarzans among the apes]. And, as for the industrial zone--"barren" is colonial through and through. Whereas there were intermittent spaces that went without tenants every now and then as the market pronounced, the area as a whole, then and now, has been largely inhabited by manufacturers that are only recently displaced [not, as some have characterized it, as "being in decline and thus forfeiting spaces to 'artists'"]. And outside of that sliver of industrial space, the only abandoned spaces in Williamsburg were those that were struck by "landlord lightning." Otherwise, Williamsburg has been, unbroken, a vibrant multicultural community since World War II.
Dennis, I appreciate your POV as a lifelong Williamsburg resident; I am sure that you, more than anyone, must be conflicted about the changes to your neighborhood.
In my personal experience from my time spent in Williamsburg (with miscreants, freaks and rebels) in the late 80s and early 90s I will fully admit I was TERRIFIED every second I spent walking the streets there as a native Bay Ridge-ite who frequented the LES (also pre-gentrification) and other "undesirable" neighborhoods. My memories of Williamsburg at that time does not include the cafes, modern furniture emporiums, yoga studios and children's play spaces that litter Bedford, Berry, Wythe and other main streets. There was little in the way of procuring more than a bag of Pork Rinds and a Malta at midnight if you were feeling peckish. As I braved the darkened streets of the South Side, yes I passed more than a few abandoned buildings, crack houses, burned out shells of buildings, etc. I am not overstating the fact that in the late 80s Williamsburg was not exactly ready for Architectural Digest.
As a resident, I defer to your memories and respect your opinions on your neighborhood however strongly I feel it represents so much of what Brooklyn IS NOT about and what it has devolved into because of the perils of gentrification. I fully admit, the ugly chic aesthetic of most young residents appall my sensibilities, the side-eye I get from kids from Kansas who are annoyed by my stroller and very presence as an, ugh, MOM makes me stabby and the general attitude by most of the residents towards who they perceive to be "outsiders" borders on offensive.
All that being said, I thank you for your perspective and wonder how you feel about the gentrification of your neighborhood as one of the probable very few lifelong residents who can still afford to live there.
Well, Kate, my question to you then would be how long have you lived here? If you weren't scared of Williamsburg in the late 80s then I am assuming:
a) you were not born yet
b) you were a resident
c) you are just a lot cooler and tougher than me, props.
Heather,
Thank you. I wonder if L Magazine staff are right now screaming "NO!" at your question posed as the end of your response. I have previously answered questions similar to yours--do you mind if I instead provide you with some links and possibly copy-paste previous answers without assumptions? But before I do that, can I also add that the most overlooked and possibly most important crime prevention in Southside Williamsburg [where most of Williamsburg's demonology is cast] did not come externally, such as from City Hall policy, the NYPD [90th and 94th pcts respectively] or the agents of gentrification--its most significant prevention and reduction was organic, from the community itself.
As to your snapshot impression of Williamsburg--in this I feel you may be unfair. Let me tell you a personal story to illustrate: once I walked down Ingraham St. with a former acquaintance. We walked in the middle of the street because traffic was slight and the sky was clear--as we did, we rehashed earlier arguments about "vacancy" and the "perception of vacancy" in colonial attitudes that were resurfacing in the Williamsburg narrative now that Facebook had presented the proto-hipsters with an opportunity to reunite. As we did so, my acquaintance accused me of all sorts of things, largely that I was crazy and absurd, and that anyone with eyes could see that the building immediately to the left of us was indeed vacant. I responded, "Do you not see the open door, with people poring out and in? Do you not see the adjacent parking lot, filled with automobiles?" But he was so adamant at being right, period, and being right about what Williamsburg was really like "before," [because, this gentrification of williamsburg is not based on a projection of the future but a dread of the past], that he continued to deny the occupancy and assert the vacancy of the building--almost petulant, like a child, coming close to holding his hands over his ears as I refuted his observations to him with observation. He ran to the wall of the building [!] and tried to climb up an industrial fan's vent as the fan was operating, and jumped up to peek inside, only to find an envelope company that was so busy envelopes often floated about, with so many workers that it has a day and an evening shift. When there could be no denial that the building was in fact not vacant he sulked off, quite angry, and never brought up "vacant" and "Williamsburg" again--this time, he switched to the next level, "junkies and hookers," with only mild success.
I'm simply pointing out that your experience in Williamsburg, as you likely know, does not constitute a representative sample of the area, but your impression is indeed your own and I won't dispute that it is in fact yours. I just dispute its accuracy.
This Gothamist article includes comments where I clarify what I think is meant by "gentrification." This isn't to suggest that you don't know what "gentrification" means, but only to repeat what I know [as per your appreciated query]:
http://gothamist.com/2012/01/10/williamsbu…
I'll quote in brief the most salient portions:
"Gentrification is preeminently displacement--"gentrification" is NOT what it is most popularly coupled with, "development." "Development" is an entirely discrete other phenomenon, both historically and theoretically. Genuine development can transpire without displacement--opposing gentrification does not mean opposing new people in their neighborhood, or a new building, or a new business, but all these things can be, as they are in Williamsburg, incidental to gentrification so it is impossible to discuss gentrification without first discussing the current state of development in places we know to be "gentrifying."
"When we say "displacement" in Williamsburg we mean specifically the Puerto Rican and Hispanic community of Williamsburg but we don't mean it generally. Generally speaking, gentrification displaces the poor with the middle class. But the specific circumstances of the gentrification of Williamsburg center around the unique history of her Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. This doesn't mean that the Poles in Greenpoint haven't also experienced displacement, but it is the Puerto Rican and Hispanic groups who are consistently, implicitly and explicitly referred to when the neighborhood's past is dredged up to justify the gentrification, i.e. "Williamsburg demonology." This is how we know the gentrification of Williamsburg is not about "development" because it makes no reference to any "achievement" or "action" or "cause" or "philosophy" or "school" or "thinking" or "mode" or "artwork"--more than anything Williamsburg is held up as an "improvement on the before."
These articles also includes salient comments by me about the relationship between "art" and "real estate":
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/…
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/…
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/realesta…
Henry Stewart also penned the following articles that are germane and likewise have salient responses by readers:
http://www.thelmagazine.com/newyork/willia…
http://www.thelmagazine.com/TheMeasure/arc…
And the last thing I wish to mention before you respond [if you wish to] is that I am not alone as a life-long resident of Williamsburg. One of the mistakes and mischaracterizations made about Williamsburg, most likely due to the prominence of coverage on hipster transience in the area, is that it is entirely transplanted. This is almost as bad as "the bad before" that dominates Williamsburg's narrative on gentrification--I can personally name dozens of households that are lifelong in Williamsburg. I'm certain that many hundreds, if not thousands more, can also declare themselves "lifelong" if mass media as well as transient perspectives gave them a chance.
The "culture" Henry refers to is most likely new and refreshing, mostly "younger" mediums to express ourselves. There is a deep rooted disdain for people who are different in Bay Ridge. Growing up wearing different clothing, listening to different music, the majority of locals didn't understand or were afraid of me and different styles.
If you look at where 14 - 20 year olds are spending their time, it's at the movie theater or in the streets, and 21 - 30 year olds, it's in the sports bars.
The bars and clubs play the music from 10 - 30 years ago, and I would bet most of the bars' clientele are over 35.
I am not saying this isn't culture, but I am saying it's lacking some options. There are no spots where a band playing "new" music (I am not talking about a Nikelback coverband) Any sort of band experimenting with new sound or influences has no chance of garnishing any sort of crowd in bay ridge unless you already have 100 friends who might come out to the Monk. The establishments want popular music from the 90s, or influenced by it.
This is why I moved out of Bay Ridge, and visit my friends when i can. Bay ridge is going to knock Williamsburg forever, but there is a reason why people who have settled in williamsburg never heard of bay ridge. But if you say "that place where saturday night fever was filmed." the response will surely be "oooh yeaah that place!!"
Oi, Jay, I thought things were cooler for your generation growing up--you're describing MY childhood! And I'm the generation before you. Some things seem a lot trendier there the last ten years. . .I think the disdain was genuinely (slowly) fading. I know exactly what you are talking about, though.
It has always been a great place for live music but NEVER been a good scene for current live music. . .unless it's in your own house.
Heather, I was alive at that time, I lived on 6th St in NYC, btwn B and C. I had friends moving to Williamsburg at that time and, to me, it didn't have the same druggy scary feel, it had an old world feel. It felt safe there. Not because I was cool. But tough, fuck yea! That's from growing up in Bay Ridge!
Henry, I received a link to your article via my 25 YO daughter and i'd like to add to your firestorm of comments (all 26 of them) & controversy. It's not so much the 'hipster' that people in the neighborhood disdain, it is, if I may paraphrase, the "cooler-than-thou" aloofness these hipster doofusses think they have. It's as if they swallowed the red pill and we, the one's resistant to change, the blue one only to find out that both pills were nothing more than Gummy Bear vitamins. They're probably at the Owl's Head now, exclaiming how their palate can tell the difference between a Bordeaux and Merleaux (you seem to be a sharp writer, so I'm sure your get the joke). Yeah, maybe there isn't as much assumed culture as Park Slope but it's there for the asking (how many 'slopers' know the full story of why the corner lot on 7th avenue & Sterling Pl. was a vacant lot for over 40+ years) . Neighborhoods and people change & adapt all the time. I think your reference to the 4 women who didn't go in was at best smuggly self-serving to try to prove your point - maybe they just came from lunch or dinner at Skinflints and just heard about the new place (like me from this article). The new Billyburg was an outgrowth of those wanna-bes who couldn't afford Alphabet city in NYC in the 90's because they tried & got in on the 'scene' too late....much like the 'slopers' and Lower Manhattan. And now the wanna-bes who couldn't afford Park Slope have found Bay Ridge. You want a cultural wasteland then just cross the GGP, I mean the VNB, and you'll find it in Staten Island. Nell Flaherty's of the 80's eventually became the Salty Dog of today. I lamented the loss of a bit of Irish charm for a 95+ flatscreen, sports '25/7' TV viewing bar with marginal food (at best) but I moved on. Next time, try getting more opinions on these trends.....then maybe you'll be able to write like Tom Wolfe and not just look like him. There are enough dilettantes in the world already. For a born and bred Brooklyn boy, shame on you.
@Mully
(a) How often do you actually have to deal with people who think they're cooler than you?
(b) "I think your reference to the 4 women who didn't go in was at best smuggly self-serving to try to prove your point" ok
(c) "The new Billyburg was an outgrowth of those wanna-bes who couldn't afford Alphabet city in NYC in the 90's because they tried & got in on the 'scene' too late....much like the 'slopers' and Lower Manhattan. And now the wanna-bes who couldn't afford Park Slope have found Bay Ridge." this is not a true history of NYC
(d) "I lamented the loss of a bit of Irish charm for a 95+ flatscreen, sports '25/7' TV viewing bar with marginal food (at best) but I moved on." I'm not sure what we're arguing about anymore? And I have no idea why I should be ashamed. Something about a bow tie??
Henry,
the shame on you referred to what I described as 'self-serving'.... I digressed! However, I worked in every part of Brooklyn over the last 23 years, dealt with a lot of different people, know a number of realtors in our beloved BR and beyond as well as couples whose children attend a local preschool I am indirectly connected with. Many have said and/or implied what we all unfortunately come face to face with i.e. settling for the next best thing. Maybe not what you would describe as 'true' but a fair yet realistic observation.
The only way a Native Brooklynite can be an invading Hipster is if they bring a Hipstertude home with them. (I may be looking at you, Henry Stewart) I have witnessed this, first hand...until I took out the buzzer, shaved off their beards (chicks too), ripped off their flannel and found a circa 1996 Asian Tribal Art Tat on their arm that really means "Free Soda with Every Delivery". As well as a TKA tape and a 7/8 Club Membership Card from OLA in their skinny jeans
You know the reason we aren't like the rest of the City is because it is still a City Worker's Neighborhood. The people that clean your streets, put out your fires, protect your stuff actually live here and in the surrounding neighborhoods. Their wives and husbands work in the Restaurants and Bars. They send their kids to the area schools and they work hard to keep their community safe and off the map. Sure 3rd Ave has a Jersey Shore-ish nightlife that attracts those that enjoy the Electronic music and want to dance forever. *Fist Bump* So what? There is more to Bay Ridge than just Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights, muscle shirts and the Alpine and you know that. Stop fronting and have a nice glass of Vino at Bliss Park or is it Owl's Head? You can keep telling people we are boring (which we totally are not) and don't like outsiders (how very Children of the Corn!) This way we can continue to keep our little multi-cultural neighborhood a secret. Hopefully that will keep our rents down and we won't have to worry that we aren't artistic enough, creative enough or young enough. (So cruel, Henry. Words hurt!)
BTW...is this in Meat Villages' Butcher Area?
C'mon, the point of this piece is that you have two extremes in Brooklyn, embodied by north and south, but that both have their virtues, and that there are people/businesses like Owl's Head that can conceivably bridge the gap between the two. It's not like I look down on city workers. My father works for the city...
"The bars and clubs play the music from 10 - 30 years ago, and I would bet most of the bars' clientele are over 35.
I am not saying this isn't culture, but I am saying it's lacking some options. There are no spots where a band playing "new" music (I am not talking about a Nikelback coverband) Any sort of band experimenting with new sound or influences has no chance of garnishing any sort of crowd in bay ridge unless you already have 100 friends who might come out to the Monk. The establishments want popular music from the 90s, or influenced by it."
Music after the Beatles? Are you sure it exists? LOL I've been saying this for years. Bay Ridge live music scene is for cassette players only.
North and South? What is this a mini series? Do you think that we can meet on the hill in Sunset and trade something for peace? I'll bring a Roast Beef w/Gravy from John's Deli (on Stillwell) and you can bring something "local" and super awesome from the North. I'll even throw in a Manhattan Special.
We need a Flannel Spring! Save us from our boring selves!
Henry, I know you don't look down on City Workers, just the area they live in and where you come from. Bay Ridge is crying in it's beer over this, right now. Even though it's not even noon. It's nice that your article has brought attention to the Wine Bar on 74th Street. Now us upper crusty drunkards will no longer have to hide at home or be forced to drink only crappy Merlot when we booze it up. We can stubble from Owl's Head with class and maybe some olive pits in our pockets. An absolute sign of culcha. I have my scarf and hat ready! I just took out my cardigan and I think I am up to date with music. It's the Avett Brothers, right? They are still cool to talk about, yes?
We still love you Henry. We still think you're the cat's meow. We'll be on our super best behavior when your Northern Brooklyn Friends come here.
I hope they play Kenny G at Owls Head. I just love his music.
Not really...
...and you can stop pretending to be the voice of South Brooklyn now.
@E Evers
Yes, and dungarees are for cowboys. And bomber jackets are for pilots.
I think there's only one way we can solve this: we need to buy and reopen L'Amour's.
yes! "L'Amour, the Rock Capital of the Brooklyn!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH3vWyfLhf8
haha i started writing "of the world" and changed it to Brooklyn, but, same thing! Someone should make a movie
Lamours' was a dump, run by the mob or mob wannabes that didn't give a shit about the art scene.. im glad it's gone. FUCK that place.
I think the people who have a problem with other people's "smug" attitudes really have a problem themselves. Smugness is just another sort of confidence. It take a lot of confidence to move to the big city from Kansas and open up a Salon, a Gallery or a nice Restaurant etc.
These people are reinventing the next Brooklyn, and Bay Ridge is being left behind. It's fear embodied in "GET TE FUCK OUTA'HEAR FUGHETABOUT IT" attitude and it's appalling.
I can't wait to visit this wine place.
Jay - life long Bay Ridge resident, played with LA Guns at Lamours', almost got beat up by Pete Steele, Currently resides in Windsor Terrace.
And I am not saying Bay Ridge sucks, as i read my comment it may seem like that, but I am however tired of the attitude that makes it hard for people that are doing something different to succeed.
Jay, your comments read EXACTLY as they are: those of someone who moved from Bay Ridge to Windsor Terrace. Windsor Terrace may be per capita, the most boring place in all of Brooklyn. Your assertion that we should be so grateful to Midwesterners who move here and teach the Brooklyn bred troglodytes about hair, art and food (in your order of importance) is so misguided in your attempt to overcome your lame 6th grade class photo whe you are rockin' Z. Cavariccis (sic? I wasn't a guidette, sorry).
Lastly, your comments about L'Amour (which had no s in its name FYI, figured you'd know since you rocked it so hard) are those of someone who is not of the age that was, in fact, it's heyday and pretty fucking awesome. I saw Slayer, Motörhead, Faith No More, Soundgarden and myriad other bands that were fucking brilliant. And lastly, you must be a good runner because Pete Steele could have kicked the crap out of the likes of you while playing a show, making out with a goth chick and swilling a Jackand Coke all at the same time.
You know, this is all very silly.
As an under 30-something that's lived in Bay Ridge for a very long time, I'm not exactly clamoring for a wine bar or anything that purports to be "cultured" according to someone else's standards. Why is wine chosen as the pinnacle of alcoholic superiority when beer gardens are popping up all over Manhattan and Northern Brooklyn? It seems to me that this wine bar is just another gimmick, as is this entire article. Nothing more than a ploy to get people's attention over something that might not even survive, given the economy. But, I'll play along a little.
You deride the neighborhood, despite claiming to be from around here. If it's so dull and lifeless, feel free to see yourself out. That isn't meant to be construed as a threat/directive/argument/whatever else you might want to twist it into for the purposes of this amusing little diversion. But if Bay Ridge isn't "exciting", "culturally satisfying" or any other complaint you might have...feel free to move somewhere that meshes with your sensibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with you or anyone else wanting to move on to different pastures. However you should recognize that this article and line of thinking just smacks of derision, and most likely won't be well received. Just because YOU or any of the other self appointed members of the upper social echelon don't see the culture we supposedly thirst for, doesn't mean it's non-existent.
This is a simple neighborhood. It's fairly quiet, family based and what most would describe as "blue collar". The resentment tends to come from people who've spent their lives working as hard as they could for whatever they have seeing trust fund kids with huge beards and vintage clothes moving in and bringing little else to the neighborhood aside from a smug sense of self satisfaction. I personally would prefer it if the hipsters stayed North, because my rent is high enough as it is. I also like the mix of people here. There's little to no pretension and no reason for it.
So much is made of "culture". But who determines what is and isn't culturally relevant? In this case, it's the people who live in Bay Ridge. Maybe the wine joint will take off, maybe it won't. But it'd be really nice if you and your haughty friends would refrain from calling people in the neighborhood dullards from underneath your jaunty pork pie hats in articles full of thinly veiled scorn.
-KBTA
Wait a second, I forgot that we still have Capri. Check one in the Bay Ridge column!
Jay- if I buy L'Amour and rename it "The Smash Club", is that cool?
Le sigh
Defensive people are defensive.
I currently just moved to Windsor Terrace from Bushwick, Fort Greene before that, Battery Park before that and before that I was on Senator street and 3rd.
Write me off, it's easier that way.
Allison, the only way a new progressive club would succeed in bay ridge is if YOU owned it and sold cupcakes out of it ;-)
Call it FishingChili lol
I'm friends with you both. You're both a little right, and you're both a little wrong. You both living in places where you're happy. But Jay gets Terrace Bagels, which I really hate him for right now.
The beauty of NYC is that every neighborhood DOESN'T have to have everything. If I wanted chain stores, I'd move to Hylan Blvd. If I wanted to be surrounded by art galleries and clubs, I'd move to Williamsburg or the LES. If I wanted a gigantic park, I'd move to Windsor Terrace. I travel to all those places, and I come back to Bay Ridge for what it is - the place that's closest to my family, the place that reminds me of where I came from, the place away from my job. Will I stay here forever? Probably not. But there's worse things than living here.
Brooklyn by definition is not supposed to be homogeneous. It would be incredibly fucking boring if it was. I'd hate for Williamburg to be more like Bay Ridge or vice versa. But Williamsburg has the Turkey's Nest, and we have a wine bar. I'm happy that I live in a place with both neighborhoods rather than being stuck in the middle of Kansas.
I think there's a universal truth about being from anywhere: you know it better than anyone else, and you can talk for ages about how much it sucks. But God forbid an outsider says shit about it, you will fight til your face turns blue for that place. Except for Kansas because I'm pretty sure that still sucks.
FishingChilli! BRILLIANT! Now to take over Top of the Crescent and make my nightclub kingpin dreams come true!
People who saved…
Top Commenters
